Richard Oliver

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Posts by Richard Oliver

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  207

  Honest Questions About Child Abuse

  by Richard Oliver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i have two honest questions for everyone here.

  i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

  but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

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  Richard Oliver

  I am not whitewashing anything. I am showing how the law applies to what everyone here is complaining about. It is virtually impossible to overcome the odds of both mandatory precedent and compelling precedent under current law, at least in the US. The only way to bypass that is through the legislature.
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  17

  Bad Press Is The Reason For Watchtower Corporation Move Into The Boonies For Seclusion

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  with all the pedophile lawsuits can you blame them?

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  i think the silent lambs march as well as dire financial straits is making them trying to get out of public eye with restricted access to headquarters, were as in brooklyn ny it was not possible..

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  Richard Oliver

  First of all you can't make the assumption that just because someone owns a lot of land somewhere that they can build on it. The towns in which Patterson and Walkhill is in may have limited their expansion efforts. They still need to get permits and zoning rules in order to build.

  Also just think about this. In Brooklyn with building stretched out over a number of blocks, can you imagine the transportation department needed in order to occupy Brooklyn. Just to move laundry from residences to the laundry required trucks and personnel to transport it.
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  207

  Honest Questions About Child Abuse

  by Richard Oliver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i have two honest questions for everyone here.

  i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

  but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

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  Richard Oliver

  Prologos: You are correct there are going to be false accusations or accusations that have been reported to the police and either charges were not brought or dropped. And if a person's name is released as a suspected child abuser without a conviction, they open themselves up for actual winnable law suits for libel. That is why when people are DF'ed in the congregation the only thing that is said is that "they are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." That is not a false statement, they don't announce someone is an adulterer, a liar, or an apostate, because if it comes out later that they are not any of those things then there is nothing can be claimed as a libel statement. That person is no longer a JW. And by the way that is why no one at least in the US can win a lawsuit over a disfellowshipping. Even the courts recognize the limit to release this information. In the Trey Bundy

  Even the courts recognize the limit to release this information. In the Trey Bundy report Irwin Zalkin reports that he is bound by a court order not to release any information about the records he does have. So a judge listened to the arguments on both sides and weighed the facts and made a determination that the probative value of the release of the information does not outweigh the right of privacy that those named in those reports have. The California Court of Appeals also recognized that even though a plaintiff has the right to the information they don't necessarily have the right to disseminate that information or to use the information in a civil trial.

  And yes the branch does use the records in order to prevent accused child molesters from ever holding a position of responsibility in the congregation. Everyone here agrees that an accused child molester should never hold a position of authority or responsibility, like a pioneer, MS or elder, so how do you suggest that they confirm if someone has been accused before or not?

  Also, everyone here demands that the congregation report to the whole congregation when a suspected child molester is in the congregation if that is what I can glean from the comments. How about if the elders follow everything that is suggested here, where they are immediately reported to the police, but let's say that the police don't bring charges or the person is not convicted, should the whole congregation know about it?

  Also, everyone here wants contradictory things. They want the congregation to have the duty to protect and warn but at the same time you demand that the congregation not delve into what each one of you do. You don't want them any control over anyones life except you want them to protect everyone from each other. The law does not recognize a duty to protect or a duty to warn for anyone that is not legally bound to do so. This is not just in cases of child abuse but it is a bedrock of jurisprudence, at least in the US, that you cannot force someone to protect someone from a third parties action. To do so would open up a huge can of worms. To illustrate a man is driving under the influence down a busy highway, and that driver hits an innocent victim who is responsible for the damage to the victim. It would be the driver who was under the influence. Under what you suggest with the duty to warn, every person that saw the drunk driver and did not warn the innocent victim would be liable for the injury. That is why there is a difference between the moral thing to do and the legal thing to do. The California Court of Appeals also recognized that there is a difference between misfeasance and nonfeasance. The court ruled that the congregation in the Conti case was not guilty of nonfeasance as a matter of law but they were guilty of misfeasance. But as we have seen juries vote with their heart but appeals courts vote with the law.

  And I know that everyone here is going to say that Watchtower is just using legal loopholes to get out of doing the right thing. But that is the way things work, just like plantiffs use the legal system to their benefit, Watchtower uses the same law to it's.
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  13

  Is the Dubbers cult going to more digital than printed?

  by dogon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i know they have slave labor free but it costs a lot to print, ship ect and then you have waste.

  digital would cut costs.

  i was thinking about this because my wife visited her mother an father who are still cult members.

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  Richard Oliver

  Also, you have to look at the simple fact that people in the public tend not to read printed things anymore. Even major papers and magazines have either greatly reduced or eliminated their printing operations and has gone to digital only or pushing digital copies more. Newsweek has gone to a digital only format and the New York Time has greatly reduced their printed copies because no one wants print anymore.

  The cost of technology has been reduced dramatically for consumers. Yes an iPad pro maybe 1000 dollars US, but that is not the only technology. The cost barrier for tablet technology has almost disappeared, with an entry level tablet costing around 60-100 dollars US. While they will still print for people who want a printed piece of material, but they do discourage it for people who will always use a tablet and just want a printed bound volume in order to complete their collection and never actually use it.
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  7

  "New Light" and the Watchtower's quasi legal disclaimer

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  found this interesting quasi legal religious statement at the bottom of this 》》》 jw.org page advertising "bible-based books and magazines":.

  some updates made to digital publications may not yet appear in the printed edition.. glad to know that jehovah and the governing body have seen fit to inform the entire world that certain doctrinal teachings of "truth" may differ between digital and print edition of the watchtower magazine and bible-based books.

  doesn't say much for the credibility of the guardians of doctrine.. confusingly, some of the doctrinal teachings, particularly in the online versions of bible-based books and magazines from the watchtower, have already undergone updates but these updates only appear in the new digital version of the new printed edition.. good thing we have a digital-only version of the "research guide for jehovah's witnesses" which is updated every year to contain all the references to the new teachings and interpretations of the bible.

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  Richard Oliver

  The changes tend to be spelling or grammatical issues that may have slipped past proofreading. They may also be like formatting issues but not of actual content or the meaning behind something. Also there are pictures that may be different for one culture than for another. For instance there may be pictures that have more Asian individuals in a picture, for an Asian speaking language than in the English American or European picture. So it is a lot of just little things and not actual content.
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  207

  Honest Questions About Child Abuse

  by Richard Oliver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i have two honest questions for everyone here.

  i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

  but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

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  Richard Oliver

  Scratches. First the first post that u posted was the complaint. A lawyer can make any accusation that they want. Second what I posted is from the courts either written opinion on appeal or the judges decision on a motion for summary judgment. If u don't believe me look it up.
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  207

  Honest Questions About Child Abuse

  by Richard Oliver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i have two honest questions for everyone here.

  i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

  but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

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  Richard Oliver

  First of all by definition a legal case can only be won or loss in a court case. I never said it was right. I present actual facts. Like court after Court judges have ruled that watchtower does not have a fiduciary duty to publishers, the duty to protect or warn. Everyone here can argue if those things are either correct or should be over turned but that doesn't negate that those are the facts atleast in the US. It is part of American law that a person doesn't have to protect a third party if they have no legal duty to do so. Again I in no way says that is right or wrong. But that is facts of the law
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  207

  Honest Questions About Child Abuse

  by Richard Oliver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i have two honest questions for everyone here.

  i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

  but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

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  Richard Oliver

  Yes I have read the ARC report. And when I do research I go on westlaw or lexisnexis and search watchtower and read every case that, that word comes up. And btw facts are not biased. Facts are facts.
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  58

  watchtower lapel pins

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been noticing lots of these pins on lapels.

  i could almost understand the jwdotorg pin because the new mantra is to go to the website.

  but why on earth are they sporting a building?

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  Richard Oliver

  All I presented was actual facts not conjecture or speculation.
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  207

  Honest Questions About Child Abuse

  by Richard Oliver in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i have two honest questions for everyone here.

  i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.

  but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.

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  Richard Oliver

  Yes outlaw how dare I show an analogy with the use of another complex situation. Oh wait you can't think of complex situations because your brain can't comprehend those types. Everything is one cause and therefore one solution.